Vs Pastor Stanley Is The Bible True Word Of God
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Channel: Ahmed Deedat
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AI Generated Summary ©
The speakers stress the holy spirit's ability to act on one's behavior and encourage writing and reading the Bible. They also discuss the holy spirit's fruit tree and seasonality. The use of Christian language and racist behavior are also highlighted, along with historical figures like Jesus and his predecessessents. The speakers emphasize the importance of praying in the name of Jesus Christ and not giving appeal to anyone. The presentation then touches on the church's use of "faith" in court cases, with one speaker expressing surprise at the term "faith."AI Generated Transcript ©
Brothers, sisters, I would like you to
I would like you to show one verse, only one statement anywhere in your Bible, any version of the Bible, where Jesus says, I am God away, he says, we should mean and by God given tonight
the fastest and he can open his Bible and tell visit God read john one one. So what does it say?
Does it say the words of Jesus and God wishes me? No. Tonight, I allow myself to become angry because I experience a dishonest behavior. And I'm full of breath because Mr. DITA behaves like a Nazi officer for questioning.
questioning it pour in reasons men under torture, because you demand from Jesus, that he should present himself according to how you want him to form his vocabulary. And Mr. DITA Jesus is greater than you are, and when he declares that he's got, and the Bible declares that all or under his speech, even a child should understand that if Jesus tells that to me, if you're all vital power to the child understands, then you should pray to Him.
It is Mr. deedat first trip to Scandinavia.
Mr. Diaz is
a self taught, self educated Muslim scholar of the Christian Bible.
He will this evening, share his experiences with you in shelter.
Before I hand you over to co chairperson sister, Maria.
I would like to stress
to the brothers
and remind them of the commandments of Allah subhanho wa Taala in the Holy Quran Ofu bill of food, which means honor your commitments.
I would like to stress please that this is a place of worship.
It is a house of God. And we must therefore
honor the status, we must control our emotions and sentiments we must not get carried away and we must do our utmost and make the contribution necessary to make this event accessible as possible. Thank you.
So like last night. I also want to welcome you in the name of Jesus Christ to this church, Mr. Khan.
Tonight we will have about the same format as we had last night. That means that we first
want Mr. shoberg to present his message for 50 minutes. Afterwards we welcome Mr. deedat to speak for 60 minutes and following with Mr. shoberg for another 10 minutes. After that we will have a session of questions and details about the practical. How are we going to go about a practically we will inform you about further on
so I guess we are all ready to
Learn and now we are welcoming Mr. Stanley shoberg to start.
I have accepted this challenge,
because I have been asked to come and answer the question is Jesus God?
I did not take the initiative.
And the question is, why do I accept the invitation?
Not because I have any conflict with Muslims, or people from other nations. I believe I have proved with my life.
Investment up till now that I do love Muslim people.
All through my years, and especially the last year, when there was an earthquake in Iran. We worked hard from our church to send our cargoes of qualified medicine to the Iranian people.
When we heard Muslims tell us about starving people in Ethiopia and Eritrea,
we sent foot, a lot of foot and collected money to help. And we said we don't care if they call themselves Muslims or Christians. They are our human brothers and sisters. And if they need help, we want to help. The same with it for the Kurds in Iraq,
and for the refugees in the desert of Jordan.
And
when there was a big typhoon, with 50,000 people killed in Bangladesh.
I rushed to Dhaka and down to Chittagong. And together with a Muslim priest, and the police officer from Chittagong. We worked hand in hand, risking our lives by boat, going out to the islands with clothes, building material, food and medicine.
Because we love people who are in need, and in this country,
I have been working with refugees who have been Muslims. And we have not asked if they wanted to become Christians. We have said, if you are a refugee and need shelter, we have homes, we have money. I have contacts, even up with a government and I will work for you to help you to find the home in this land. This is how I have been working. And I have not had even one negative word against Islam
until yesterday,
Mr. DITA challenged me.
And he did it clearly, openly.
Without hesitating that he had come as a guest to Sweden
even insulted me with a smile in his face.
And I had to give some answers. And some of you became very angry.
In one way, some people had have advised me to not take part in this meeting tonight.
Why not?
Because last night, you wanted to kill me.
Do you know that the police is now investigating and they are in the laboratory finding out what kind of poison it was.
And even the floor in the Congress hole is damaged.
I had been burned alive.
Then I heard someone say
We'll try another way.
And we had a telephone call
as a threat on our family, if I would come here tonight.
And now I asked you, Muslim brothers? What benefit? Is it?
If you
cause violence
in a kind of discussion about the God of creation?
Did the Jews have any benefit
of crucifying Jesus? Was that good?
No.
Don't we need peace in this world?
Should we not cooperate for brotherhood?
Should we not pray from churches and mosques, that there will be peace in the Middle East, that we bless the peace conference in Madrid.
But God will not listen to our prayers for peace.
If we try to kill each other, because we have a disagreement, now I'm ready to die.
If you are going to,
then I will go home to heaven.
But I would like to stay on. Because these are exciting days. And I have some appointments for the next following days that I need to keep faithful to.
These were words of introduction.
And now I pray unto God the Father.
And I pray that the Holy Spirit will manifest his power to convince and create evidence.
And I pray that Jesus will be glorified tonight. I pray in the precious name of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior.
Jesus, is he equal with God?
Well,
the first question must be answered, what does the Bible mean? When Jesus is proclaimed to be equal with God?
And I like to quote from the Bible, because honest Muslim people who know that Quran, they respect the holy book.
They know that the Injeel
is the message from God to us. And here it says,
In sang john,
the gospel of john, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him, and without Him was not anything made, that was made in Him was life.
That was God.
But then it says, that the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. And we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.
That was Jesus.
In the eighth chapter of john, it says in the 58th, verse
like this,
just a minute.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham, was, I am.
Now this is very interesting. The Bible claims that Jesus is equal with God.
Gee, Jesus did not become a man, so that he came into existence at the time of his birth.
Jesus was of eternity before Abraham, and he is, and will forever exist equal with God. In Philippians, it says, one of the most precious books within the Bible that has brought so many blessings into our hearts. And this is the testimony of the Bible, the Holy Book of God.
In Philippians, the second chapter, and the sixth verse,
Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God, 40, not robbery to be equal with God, but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in likeness of men.
That's the gospel, the Injeel. That's what we believe. And listen to this in Colossians, the first chapter and the 15th verse, here it says about Jesus, who is the image of the invisible God, the First Born of every creature.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions, or principalities or powers, all things were created by him, and for Him, and He is before all things, and by Him all things consist. This is Jesus as God.
And in Hebrew, the first chapter it says, like this,
these are very powerful words in the Bible. Tonight, I have decided to not be so emotional as last night, I think I was a little nervous.
And my hands were shaking. It was the first time in my life, I had such an opportunity. Tonight, I feel more calm. And here it says about Jesus,
that
he who being the brightness, of His glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had, by himself, purge, our sense, set down on the right hand of the Majesty, on Hi, Jesus, is equal with God.
That is Christian faith. And we always say in this church and in other Christian churches, no one is greater than Jesus. He is the King of kings. He is the Lord of lords, he is identical with God equal the Creator of all things. And the Bible says that Jesus, he has divine authority.
Sometimes I have seen as I have been reading through the books or the booklets by have made deedat and he says, like this.
And listen now my Muslim friends, Mr. De Darth, he says like this, you don't need to read the Bible. You just read my books. Because I help you to understand what is in the Bible. Don't care to read the Bible, because I'll just make some quotations.
Don't listen to that. If you are honest, and you want to know the truth, going get you yourself your own Bible.
And then you will find no, don't make any uploads. I need every second.
Listen.
Jesus claimed himself to be God.
And he did it clear
and easy to understand for everyone that reads the Injeel that even Muhammad considered as the Word of God
and here in Chung
Five, and 21 Listen,
for as the Father raises up the tent, and quick enough them, even so the son quickeneth, whom he will, for the father judges, no man, but have committed all judgment and to the sun. Fantastic.
Jesus equal with God has been given the same authority as God has,
that all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father, He that honors not the son on Earth, not the father, which has sent him if you don't honor Jesus, you don't even honor God.
And I could continue and give you even more scriptures.
And you see, this is what Jesus said, and this is what the Bible claims.
And sometimes I wonder,
if I hear someone say, Well, I believe in Jesus. And as a Muslim, I even believe more in Jesus than some Christians do.
But you see, if you believe that Jesus was a prophet, and I quote from his prophecies, and you tell me that that is a lie, that is a lie. And you make jokes about what Jesus did and what he said, I don't believe that you believe in Jesus.
Because if Jesus was a prophet, then what he said, must be believed and trusted. And Jesus said, he has divine authority. He's equal with God. It was through Jesus, everything came into being that has been created.
And Jesus is God in the sense of having a perspective into the future.
You should read what Jesus says about the future, when he talks about our time when the Jews are coming back to Israel, when a lot of conflicts are stirred up in the world, when there are famines and earthquakes, when the sun shall be darkened, as it has been over Kuwait after the war. And after what Saddam Hussein closed in, in Kuwait. This is exactly what Jesus spoke about. And all these terrible things will take place just before the return of Jesus, when he will, again, manifest His glory, and He will give peace on this earth.
Now, I respect Muslim brothers and sisters, who say like this, Can God have a son?
How did he get a son?
And we believe that God is one.
And you believe in two, maybe three gods? No, we don't.
And you see, Jesus is not the Son of God, in the way I am the son of my father.
You must understand, if you're spiritual,
that God is about our understanding and comprehension. God is greater than we are.
Because the Bible says, God is so great that we exist within his existence. You see, God is much greater than we even can think. And Jesus is a part of the wholeness of God. Even Mr. De dot told us that in the, in Genesis, when it talks about how God created this world, God is being mentioned in plural. And that is fully right in the Bible. When God's talks about that let us make men into our image. He talks about himself in plural. You see, God is not just a single ingredient.
jewel that is limited to his throne. And I told this last night, and I must repeat it.
If you pray unto God, from a mosque, in Mecca, or from a smaller house, outside Stockholm, if you're a lady from Africa, and you remember how you prayed when you were afraid of something that threatens you, and you were about to run away, and escape, maybe to Scandinavia, you said, God helped me.
And that is the miracle of God, that He is not a single individual limited to his throne, because he can hear the prayers of a Pakistani and the Saudi Arabian, he can hear the praise the prayers of an African and the Scandinavian at the same moment, He's everywhere.
You see,
years back, all of us thought that reality was simple to understand. But science have cleared that reality is about our understanding, on nearly every thinkable level,
talking about
an atom.
Many said, an atom is the smallest part in creation.
But micro biology,
has now discovered within one atom, that people through hundreds of years thought that is the real singleness, in universe, one atom, it can, it can't even be divided. But then they discovered it can be divided. But now, science in microbiology, in atom physics, they have recognized that within one little atom, there are millions of particles, like a universe, just as big and that that it could be, it could be a parallel to whole universe with all the stars that are right there in that little atom of invisibility. But you see, God's creation is so great.
Don't limit God. Don't limit God, and think God is what I can understand and nothing about that. You understand? I hope you do.
You see,
when we talk about Jesus, I know you have a problem.
You say like this, that?
God is so great,
that it is impossible that God we have a whole booklet here written by a committee that and he makes a lot of jokes. And he scorings and he mocks and his bless phim our faith. And he tells us is God like this? That God could be tired like Jesus, that God could sit and eat and drink like Jesus is that God?
Well, let me tell you. That is the greatness of God.
When God saw people who were refugees, God, thought of people similar to the Palestinians, without homes, without shelter,
for the heat and for the cold.
God wanted to fully understand humanity. And therefore, God in His love decided to come down on our level, in the deepest love and understanding.
That's the meaning of the message of so God loved the world, that he sent his only begotten Son, and the word begun it means He sent His only begotten Son, the son who is what he has always been and will be forever.
You have asked what is the meaning of Eagleton Well, that's the meaning.
It's not something that
happened in, in, in, in the womb of Mary, know God gave something of himself in order to come close to humanity. And because of Jesus, if you are tempted, God understands, if you have problems, God can understand. And because of Jesus,
he has a greater love.
But not only that,
because
Jesus came in order to represent us. Now that is the message of the Bible.
You see, you have sin, you have guilt. And we have already heard Mr. OCMA d dot pronounce eternal hell upon some people.
And all of us are afraid of the wrath of God, if we know about our own weakness, and who is so strong, that he can make himself qualified for heaven, and come up into paradise and say, God, here you have a real good man. Here you have someone who always made his best, I treated my wife in a kind way I gave to the poor I tested regularly. I fasted from the sun break until the sun came down, and I didn't eat secretly.
I didn't drink secretly, who can say?
Because I have been living in various parts of the world.
I know myself, and I know people, no one of us is qualified. We need the grace of God.
But you see, God is not the only one on the scene.
There is a devil. And the devil is described in the Bible, as the prosecutor.
And the devil has a tremendous power.
You can see how much evil The devil is causing in the world. God wants peace, but the devil wants destruction.
God wants happiness in your life. But there is conflict, and maybe depressing situations caused by the devil.
But you see Jesus, he could represent mankind, because He created us, and he could die on the cross. And he took all our guilt upon himself, and he died. But here's the problem. I know Mr. D, that he thinks, Oh, these Christians, how can they believe that God died?
What kind of God is that who die? Well, I think as Muslims, you don't understand what it is to die.
Excuse me.
Now I'm provoking.
Well, you see,
when Jesus died, do you know what you did? When Jesus died, it was like entering the gates of the Kingdom of death. Now, when Jesus wanted to save mankind,
he wanted to show love. He died because he paid the penalty of death. But the problem was still there. The devil was there as the King of of death. And in the gates of hell, they were under control of their demons. So Jesus had to die. Not just as a suffering, not to be defeated, Jesus died in order to enter the gates of hell, and go straight up to the devil. I'm not going to look at you now.
and conquer the prosecutor.
And take the power out of the hands of the devil
and open up for eternal life to all those who believe in Jesus Christ, and they are saved from hell, and rescued for heaven. That's the message about Jesus.
And I challenge you,
all of you who think you're so good in yourself. You don't need any grace. Well try to go to heaven by yourself.
Self. But if you need grace, accept Jesus.
He will do everything for you. And if you have problems in your family,
evil in your neighborhood,
someone cheating you, creating difficulties for you. And you can't handle the problem. Why not try asking Jesus? He is understanding Abel. I mean, it doesn't cost anything, just try to pray, find out yourself.
Because
we can have a discussion on an intellectual level
and may be
such discussion sometimes make us angry, or dry.
But the Bible says,
God is so great that you can't even understand him. But you can experience Him.
Yes.
Now,
I do have some more to say.
I know that Mr. D, that he doesn't like the miracles of Jesus. And he thinks that Moses was greater than Jesus. Because Moses, he was able to out from a stick in his hand, create a snake, something frightening. But Jesus when he came, you have written a whole booklet about it. When Jesus came the first miracle he did, he changed water into wine. And then you say that Jesus made the Christians alcoholics.
But then you have never been in Israel.
Because in Israel, they are experts in creating a very tasty wine that is very pure, and very beautiful, and very tasting. And there is not even one percentage of alcohol in it. And we use that in our churches for Holy Communion.
Do you think Jesus wanted to make them as drunkard? No, no.
But why do you when you preach about heaven and paradise? My dear brothers, why did you when you talk about paradise say that when we get to paradise, there will be a wine for all the Muslims.
Do you know why Jesus
manifested His glory, creating wine out of water, and giving them a tasty, dutiful
experience at that wedding? First of all,
Jesus chose to come to a wedding, because it was a prophetical event. Because he comes to create love and happiness among people. Jesus did not really like You see, Jesus was greater than Moses, not as you say that Moses was greater than Jesus. Because Moses, he gave an illustration of the frightening snake. And he wanted to tell the king of Egypt don't follow the snake.
Don't do as an Eve as they sinned in the Garden of Eden.
That was a miracle of judgment upon the nation of Egypt. Jesus was greater than Moses.
Moses spoke about him who should come to who should be like him. You are telling us in your books, that when Moses said that a prophet will come with similar to me, and you say that is Mohammed, it can't be Mohammed. Because Moses, he reminds us about Jesus. But Jesus is greater than Moses, because Moses, he saved the people out of Egypt.
Like Jesus, He gives salvation for the whole world, out of bondage. Moses, he was willing to give his life in order to save his people. Jesus gave his life in order to save the world.
You see, Muhammad can't be the Prophet Moses talked about, because Moses love the Israeli people, but the Quran creates enmity toward the Israeli people. I mean, you may have your political opinion.
If you don't like Jews, I can't help it. But yesterday evening, I was reading from your own theology
that Muslim priests say, in an academy of theological research in the Quran, that Jews are not human.
That is racism. For me.
Moses loved Israel.
Man, Mohammed did not. So
Mohammed was not similar to Moses.
Hi, know that when we talked about Jesus
being equal with God,
then
aceveda
refers to a discussion
when Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. And some Jews were very angry about that.
But then Jesus said, Well, don't quarrel because you are all gods.
So Mr. De dot thinks, as Jesus referred to the Old Testament, Mr. De dot thinks, well, Jesus had an opinion that while I am one among very many, and other people, they are also gods. But you see, if you read the Scripture,
then your whole booklet is falling apart.
And there is nothing more to read in it.
Because in the Old Testament, if you if you read the Bible, I don't think you ever read the Bible through
because here it says, gr gods, and all of your children have the most high budget ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes arise.
So what is Jesus telling them? Ironically, he says, Oh, you don't believe that I am what I am. You think you are gods. And you refer to this song that you are gods. This is typically for human beings to be so proud.
But let me tell you set Jesus referring to Psalm 82.
Your children of the Most High and you're going to die. But God of eternity will never die. He is eternal.
I don't think that you can give me even one scripture from the Bible that will put doubt in my heart, about Jesus being God.
Yesterday evening, I think I lost some of your questions because of time. And now I've asked a few of my secretaries to write out every question you raise, no one will say after this service, that I did not answer a question that were raised by Mr. Doubt, I am going to face every question and I will be able to answer every question
and I am going to defend Jesus as the Son of God.
And before ending up
I have more time, but I will not take all the time.
I will I will finish where I somewhere.
I touched this before. And let me tell you, honestly,
on an intellectual level, we may disagree.
And I don't believe that my words can
convince you, maybe even you get angry at me, but I hope we can be brothers. If you need any help contact me. I'll prove that I am your brother, even if you never will become a Christian. I will love you as my brother
Keep keep me logged out shampoo Pakistan sang
the chi
hum tweet Deuce Rico, so much thing.
hammock now.
We love each other.
Yes.
Now, let me just say like this.
If you had a real difficulty, and you have tried all kinds of religions, you have tried people around you, and you have done everything possible with your own might and strength. And still the problem is there. Give Jesus just a chance.
Why not? It doesn't cost even one thing. You don't need to tell anybody about it.
You can, you can talk to Jesus, even without whispering, you just send him a word of thinking. Because in the book of Jonah, Jonah prayed just thinking, oh, God helped me. So just say, Jesus, if you're there, and if you're alive. If you're equal with God, please help me give healing to my sick body.
deliver my husband from drugs, save my teenagers from being destroyed in this terrible nation of Sweden.
I know. Sweden has damaged a lot of young people. Jesus can change their lives entirely. And let me assure you
in this church, we have seen at least 1000 young people who came they were criminals. They were drug addicts. They were alcoholics. They came into this church, and they fell down and they said Jesus, and they were saved. And they are out in society working, taking responsibility. Some of them are married, and they are successful people in the society.
Next by is a house a few blocks from here, where people believe in Jesus and we have the highest percentage of positive results, helping alcoholics into salvation
and deliverance from alcoholism. Jesus never makes anyone an alcoholic, but he saves everyone from alcoholism, who wants to be saved.
Now I have become a little too excited. I think I must sit down.
Thank you.
We thank
thank pastor Stanley Shepherd for his speech. And we are now pleased to welcome Mr. Othman did that
Bismillah R Rahman Rahim
malama see hoopoe Mariama ihlara Sol. Kahala Rasul.
Well, moo hoo, Siddiqa. kana Kalani, Tom
kayfun, Illuminati Manzoor
soda cola. So the color model z. Mr. Chairman, Chair lady, and my dear brothers and sisters,
I read to you a verse from chapter five of the Holy Quran, verse number 78.
This is actually in answer to certain misstatements that pastor Stanley made last night. You see he made certain charges in that frenzy. You know, he was worked up. If you were there last night, you would have noticed? He confesses that you know, he was trembling. I don't blame him for holding poison in his hand.
But in that mood, he said, speaking about the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Sallam that he denied
The sons sonship of Jesus, that he denied the death and resurrection of Jesus that he denied the messiahship of Jesus.
And
as is known, it is in frenzy he is talking. He is not true to facts because during the course of a speech, I was telling the audience that we Muslims, we believe in Jesus, we believe that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of God. We believe in his miraculous birth. We believe that he is the Messiah, translated Christ. We believe that he gave life to the dead by God's permission, and that he he was born blind and the lepers by God's permission. This is the statement I had made, that we believe that he is the Messiah, not Muhammad. Muhammad is the Messiah, as if Jesus is the Messiah. He says no Maha Medina is that so I would like my brother to retract the statement when he
has his 10 minutes that Look, he is sorry, but in the verse that I read to you.
The word is stated Mal, merci hoo, boo Maria ma de la Sol. Most certainly, Messiah, the Son of Mary is no more than a messenger.
colloquy Russell, many way the messengers that passed away before him, was in the car and his mother was a virtuous woman. She was a saintly woman marry the mother of Jesus. She was a virtuous woman, a saintly woman,
Ghana, gana Kalani and the booth at food.
We all eat food.
Why does God Almighty want to draw attention to the fact that they both mother and son, they both add food?
Because he's trying to tell you that anyone that eats food can never be a God is not worthy of worship. In the Roman Catholic Church, they worship Mary as the mother of God.
The Christians generally they say Jesus is God, they worship Him. God Almighty says that they both add food. In other words, if you eat food, you have a call of nature. You need the toilet, and if there's no toilet, you look for the rocks of the bush.
And this is not the quality of God. God doesn't go to toilets. He doesn't look for Bhushan rocks to excrete. He doesn't do that.
The verse continues on zoo. Have a look carefully
to see how clear we are making our science to you how clearly simply reporting facts to you. So Manzoor is I have another look.
I'm not up Kuhn, how they have drifted away from the truth.
Chapter five, verse 78. Jesus is the Messiah, one of the mightiest messengers of God, but he is not God.
Then
in chapter three, verse 45,
God says in the Holy Quran, is Allah till Malacca to Yama Yama says Behold, the angel said or marry
in Allah Ha. Yuba shiraki de Cali Mata Minho, that God Almighty gives you glad tidings, the good news, have a word from him. His mercy, his name will be the Messiah translated Christ. He said no, Maria, Ma, Jesus, the son of Mary, was he one fifth vinyasa, held in honor in this world, and in the Hereafter, woman and makara been in the company of those nearest to God. Again, the Jesus is the Messiah, and is one who is closest to God, in the company of those mirrors to God. We say, as the Christian might say, sitting on the right hand of God.
But we will explain that not physically, not geographically, because God Almighty is not like a man sitting on some glorified chair on a throne and Jesus Christ on his side on his right hand side, like a flee or allies. No, no, no. In status. When the Easterner says, the man on my right hand, you could be in his left hand, but I say, in a position of importance. This is my man, my right hand, man, he can be sitting behind me, in front of me on the side of me as such, we say he's in the company of news to God. We accept Jesus the Messiah in his one loses mirrors.
God,
this was the Quran I was quoting. And you can check it out in your own Quran at any time. So
with regards to him claiming to be God, you see, I have been,
the pastor will say challenging what I say I'm appealing to my Christian Brothers learned people, in my meetings all over the world when I have a chance. I said, brothers, sisters, I would like you to do me a favor.
If Jesus is God, I would like you to show me one verse, only one statement anywhere in your Bible, any version of the Bible, where Jesus says, I am God, or where he says, worship me. And by God, even tonight.
Even tonight, if pastor Stan Lee can open his Bible, and tell me he'll come and read john one, one. So what does it say?
Does it say, in the words of Jesus, am God worship Me? No. What does it say?
That john is saying, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. and the Word was God?
asked Christian scholars, where did john get these words from?
decades before john, a Greek philosopher by the name of phylo. In his philosophy, he wrote this formula, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God with john copied into his gospel.
Gospel of St. JOHN, and I have been asking Leonard Christians
as it sir, you are a DD, Doctor of divinity.
You see the word God, the first time the god occurs in that verse, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. I'm asking what is the Greek word Therefore, God, you are a Christian of the Greek scriptures. You know, Greek, you ought to know Greek, the basis of your religion, manuscripts were all in Greek. Matthew, Mark, Luke, john, the 27 books of the New Testament, were only available in Greek in the Greek language. What is the word for God?
Can you help me sir?
No, sir, that's Hebrew.
The same person gets angry now, because of your planning. He's gonna get angry. He's gonna lose his temper. Please, take it easy. Please take it easy. Don't clap too much. Because next 10 minutes, we don't want to have any fireworks here. We want peace quiet.
Or the word is fuels. chaos in Greek means God. And the word there is Houthi iOS. Houthi oz means girl God.
Now, according to the system of the Western nations, when they have a proper noun, they start with the capital,
proper noun, common noun, small G, proper noun, capital G, God for God. So there, in the translations, you have got God with a capital G.
Except that that's your system. In Hebrew, and in Greek, there is no such thing as capital letters. And there's no such thing as small letters. And in Arabic, also, no capital letters, no small letters, but in your Western system, you have capital letters, and you have small letters. So they're the word God stands for about Almighty, so we have the capital God. and the Word was God. That second word God in Greek sir, his tongue kios.
Don, Theo's in Greek means a god.
A God should have a small G.
According to a system, a God means any God does not a proper noun.
So you must have a small G. So I'm asking why have you put a capital G again,
come on explain. You are cheating somebody.
First time, capital G. Valid, acceptable. Second time, it should be a small G.
Why have you put another capital G you creating a different meaning that this
is the God Almighty, a God means God Lee.
You see in the book of Corinthians, you read a, and that devil is the god of this world. He is the God hold yours in Greek, but you give him a small G, I want to know why.
It is both yours, God, according to your system, Sir, your scholars ought to give a capital G to go for God to the devil. But no, no, no, no. You see, you are playing fast and loose with these manuscripts, you translate them as your life. Then in the Old Testament, God Almighty speaks to Moses.
He tells him that Behold, I have made you a god to Pharaoh.
That's Elohim. I have made you a god. And I want to know now Why have you given a small g?
The devil ought to have a capital G, you gave a small G, Moses have to have a capital G, you gave a small G, where did you get the small G's and the capital G's from? Not in Hebrew, not incorrect. This is what you want to believe, and what you want the people to believe this is not honest translation.
So I say again, in the words of Jesus, these are not the words of Jesus.
What does he say?
Jesus says, My father is greater than I'm quoting him.
My father is greater than
he says, again, my father is greater than all.
He says, again, I can have my own self do nothing. I'm quoting sir.
What you have been quoting was Hebrews,
and so on, as what Philippians and who else? So who is this Philippians? Galatians Corinthians Thessalonians? Who is that? Who is the Jesus? No, is Paul Paul, Paul Paul?
I want to know what my Master Jesus says, I love him. I respect him, I revere him.
I want to follow him. But I want to know what he said. Give me his words, not what some somebody asked what he thinks, or what it ought to have meant, or what it was implied.
Religion, salvation, of my salvation does not depend upon people's interpretations, yours or mine, or anybody's. I want to know what did the Masters say? He said, the word you hear the words you hear are not mine. But the father that sent me he had given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak, even as the father had said unto me, so I speak. So what he spoke was the truth. Jesus, what he said, is the truth. Maybe you understand things differently, but I'm prepared to abide by that. I'm prepared to put my neck on the guillotine.
chop it off as you like, but produce the authority of Jesus, that Jesus said, I am God. Jesus said, worship me. But you know what? You watch the 10 minutes last time you watch.
I said Simple English. I'm talking simple, basic English. I wanted the words of Jesus with Jesus says,
I hope you all understand this English I'm talking with Jesus says,
I am bought where Jesus says, worship.
I hope you bear this in mind in the next 10 minutes that the pastor has, whether he'll be able to, quote, show me a verse, which is a saying I am God. Always worship, and you'll never find it because my neck is on the guillotine.
Leave out being God. Just forget being God for a moment. Let's hear Jesus his humility. Matthew chapter 19, verse 16, and 17.
And behold,
and behold, one came and said unto him unto Jesus, good Master, good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Jesus says unto him, Why call us dummy good?
But you calling me good for? Why call has done me good. There is none good, but one. That is God. Only God is good. He's all good. He refuses that you should even call him good. How would he ask you to call me God?
This quality of goodness,
this quality of goodness, I might say, Good pastor. And in humility, the pastor said, No, I'm not such a good man, I have a lot of shortcomings. You see, Mr. D, that you had a very good man, as is no, no, please, you know, leave that out, you know, I have a lot of shortcomings. We in humility, we do that. But if Jesus was God,
this is hypocrisy.
God is not. And it is God innocence where I accept what you are telling me. But as a man, he has a right to say, no, what are you calling me good for, you know, the real goodness is in God, and He is all good.
So therefore, we can see in his own words, he is disclaiming any type of divinity, that He is God His disclaiming that,
with regards to what the pastor said about Jesus saying, before Abraham was, I am, and I am, is an expression that God used in the Old Testament, when people were inquiring for Moses, Moses and calling from God, these people might want to know who sent you. So as God, I don't know, what's his name? What shall I say?
Is this tell them a Asher a Hebrew means I am, whatever I am. Look, don't waste time. And don't worry, you want to know about my titles? I said, Look, just take it man, I'm the debt. Are you a deal? Professor, forget all that man. Just take it I am whatever I am. Listen to me. If it's worth while anything to take it, if you think is not worthwhile, rejected,
I am what I am. God says a Asher a.
No, Jesus Christ is provoked by the Jews.
And he's telling them that look, you destroy this temple.
And I will rebuild it in three days.
And the Jews say, Look, man, it took 30 years in the making.
And you're going to build it in three days. And the writer says that they didn't understand that he was talking about the temple of his body. He didn't go to explain. He didn't explain to them. He created the confusion in the minds of the Jews.
If he was talking about himself, he should have said so the people understood misunderstood that he's talking about the Temple of Jerusalem. And he left it at that. Then they say that Look, man, you are only 70 years old, 30 years old. And you are you know about Abraham and all that. So he said, Look, before Abraham was I am. If he meant that he himself was before Abraham. We would like to know how he was. Because we know and you are telling us that Jesus Christ was born 1991 years ago
in this table, to a Jewish girl 1991 years ago. Before that he was not here on this earth. We will see with the Father. in what form was he this man? 30 year old young man was with the God and now God used him into a sperm and put it into his mother's womb. And she carries him for nine months and gives birth to this table.
Is that your idea of what Jesus was he was with God walking and talking, dining and relaxing with God. And now he reduces him see now look, you my son, you go into Mary's womb, and you stay there for nine months and be born like any other human child, you will make your mother impure for 40 days.
Is that is that the idea?
That he was with God? How was he? So I said, Look, read the book of Jeremiah.
And God Almighty tells Jeremiah said I have known you before you were in your mother's womb.
Before you were in your mother's womb, I knew you and I have made your profit to the world. Before you were in your mother's womb.
I want to know how the man can be a prophet before he came into his mother's womb.
He was with God. I know you I knew you before you were there in your mother's womb I knew them
in what form
so as you see your understanding of the Scriptures is deficient. You are looking at the Jewish book
which the Bible is full of Eastern metaphors and similes to which you have no experience you have no background to that. You are looking at things metaphorical literally. And we are creating mischief the arguments between us is because you are looking at a Jewish book instead of looking at it as a Jew. You're looking
A Jewish book through good classes as the Greek side. Because the Greeks and the Romans were the pioneers of that message of Jesus Christ, to your forefathers, the Scandinavians, and the Romans, and the French and the British and all who they meet you to see a Jewish through Greek classes as the Greek side. That's why the conflict. But if you look at the Jewish book as a Jew, no problem.
So we understand now that Jesus was with God, and Jeremiah was with God. And now I tell you, Mohammed was with God. And I tell you, Hitler was with God. And every Tom, Dick and Harry was with God.
We were all with God, the good and the bad. We were all with God, in what form? No form was God is formless, he's a spirit. How can you be informed? Know in the knowledge of God? Hitler was there, your Quisling in Norway was there. You know, every Tom, Dick and Harry was there. Pastor Stanley was there, my dad was there.
The pastor mentioned that we in Islam, we honor the engine, truly.
See when we are talking about Injeel.
This is in jail of Jesus, the good news given by Jesus Christ, we accept whatever Jesus gave, if you can see,
confirm, verify that these are the words of Jesus, that is the in jail, in jail of Jesus. But what we have today is not the injury of Jesus, we believe in the Injeel, the gospel of Jesus, not the Injeel of Matthew, read any of the Bible. Arabic Bible is in jail, a Matthew in jail, a Marcus in jail, a Lucas in jail, a yohanna.
Have you got an injury? Isa? We want the injury law visa. Have you got it? You haven't got it?
Last night, I referred was it aware that you have the red letter Bible they have read the Christians you have a red letter Bible in which every words supposed to have been uttered by Jesus didn't read. I said that's only one 10th of the New Testament, one 10th 90% of the New Testament is in black.
Not even a word, some of the books of the New Testament, not even one, one red spot.
In those books out of the 27 books, there is not even a rich blot. Anyway, that means it never touched the word of Jesus never touched it.
You bring your read the Bible, and I'll show it to
the personal statement. Jesus claimed himself to be God is all being recorded. He claims to me, please show it to me.
Usually to me, Jesus says, I'm God. There. He says worship me. I'm prepared to get baptized tonight.
No wasting no wasting time.
Then you made an allegation.
You showed a book,
US writing a book
supposed to have been attributed to me.
You showed me a book, sir. You're showing the audience. The title of the book was the God that never was.
You said Mr. Ahmed deedat wrote it. I say it's a lie.
I didn't like that book.
I didn't write that book. Every book that I writing, there's my name by Ahmed deedat by Ahmed deedat. Not according to Ahmed deedat. But by ama de that every book that I write, that book hasn't got my name. It is not my book, I didn't write.
Now, there are certain things
is the statement about Jesus. This book, the Bible, as the pastor believes, and Christians believe is the veritable Word of God, God's word.
Inspired by the Spirit, the Spirit of God, which is
Because the Christian witnesses in believes in God the Father, God, the son and God, the Holy Ghost, you believe that Father is God, the son is God and the Holy Ghost is God. So if the Spirit is the Holy Ghost is God, and if God inspires, if this is what God inspired,
that this God in inverted commas, Jesus, if he is God, in inverted commas, God was ignorant of the time, he was ignorant. If he was God, according to the Holy Spirit, one God ought to know the other God. They are co equal and co eternal, says the Christians, so they ought to know one another. So this Holy Spirit inspires Mark, chapter 13, verse 32, to write, But of that day, and that our Lord no man, no, no, the angels which are in heaven, neither the son, referring to himself, but the father is the only one who knows when the last day is, when the end is coming. Do you have judgment, do resolution, call it what you like, the last day of that day, nobody knows, even dangerous, nor do
I know, this is the knowledge of God my father only he knows. How can he not know knowledge? What kind of God is this? That he has no knowledge of the last day? And this God is testifying? The Holy Spirit of his God is testifying that this other body doesn't know.
How can he be God? Knowledge is part of God, it is all knowing he knows everything. He knows our secret thoughts, our feelings, our emotions is aware of everything, our motives, he knows everything. But this, God, in inverted commas, the Holy Spirit is inspiring mark to say he didn't know anything about the last day.
Then this God, Jesus if his God if his God, in inverted commas, he was tempted in all things like you and me, we get tempted.
Hebrews, chapter four, verse 15, but he Jesus was in all points, tempted like as we are, yet without sin, but he was tempted. He had the same weaknesses that we have, how can God have a weakness of being tempted by anybody?
Then James, chapter one, verse 13, says,
He says, the true God, God Almighty, He cannot be tempted with evil.
same spirit is inspiring James to write isn't a God can be tempted. He says, God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempted he any man, not only he doesn't tempt, he's not tempted, but he also doesn't tempt any man.
Then again, we read
that the devil tempted,
in inverted, inverted commas gone. That's Jesus, as the Christian say, as the pastor says, Is God, that the devil tempted him for 40 days, and immediately the spirit drive with him into the wilderness, and he was day in the wilderness for 40 days. Team tempted of Satan, Satan tempted him for 40 days. He paid the fools with him for 40 days with God, the devil plays fool with God for 40 days, what is he doing with him for 40 days? This is not the quality or attribute of God, that the devil can tend to God.
And this God, Jesus, if his God in inverted commas, he learned through experience, he had experience like you and me.
They say he is a wise man who learns from experience. But the wiser man is he who learns from the experience of others, you know, when others make a fool of themselves, we must learn something from that lesson, that we don't make the same mistakes, but Jesus Christ, he didn't have that opportunity, according to Hebrews chapter five, verse eight, he says, learn, learned he obedience by the things which he suffered. He is learning from his suffering, he made a mistake, he gets burned, he learned that fire burns, he made another mistake, he gets hurt. He now he learns his learning by experience, which he suffered by the things he suffered. This is not the quality of God.
God was ignorant of the season. God is inverted in inverted commas, quotation, he was ignorant about the season and on the moral next day, when they were come from Bethany, he Jesus was hungry. Can you imagine a hungry God?
By God, I'm not making a mockery of Jesus. You see, when you say that these are the qualities of God. I'm trying to draw your attention that God is not
hungry, he doesn't get hungry. He doesn't he feeds you. But he doesn't. He's not fed. He doesn't need the things that we need broiled fish and honeycomb are not his diet.
He was hungry and seeing a fig tree of our off having leaves. He came if haply he might find anything there are hungry man Headley who I see the leaves there. And when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves. Why? For the time of figs was not yet it was not season yet. I don't know what fruits grow here in season here, what season in summer, I don't know. But let's say you give me a name, clumps clumps in May. And I come here now I heard about the Scandinavian Swedish clumps, for example. And I come here to say I want your plans. This is Mr. deedat. This is midwinter. We don't have plans in winter, you should have come May June, July, you know summertime we get plans. Well, I
can make that mistake. You can make that mistake. Expecting for us. You come to South Africa, I speak about the beautiful fruits we have there. And you come out of season I said those leeches, leeches?
leeches, you get December time if you came in June, July, and
nobody will take you hold you to account for not knowing what is in season what is not in season. But God Almighty God will know what is in season what is not in season. Or you don't have to be a god. If you have some common knowledge of your country. Pastor, you would know what grows in season what is out as if it is out of season. You have no right to expect fruit from a fruit tree. No, right? Because your father made it called Almighty, He made that fruit tree and he made a certain law in certain seasons, it'll be a certain season, it won't be you expect fruit out of season. Because you're hungry, you lost your bearings. And now when there are no fruits, you cursed the tree
that it should wither and die for following God's law, your father's law.
What kind of behavior he says irrational? Gods don't do that. Even sane people don't do that. I can't believe that my Master Jesus would have been destroying a fig tree because it didn't be fruit out of season. I can't believe I can't accept. So if you tell me this is the word of God, the word of Jesus. No, this is somebody has misunderstood and I can give you an explanation how it happened, that it got into the book, that that's besides the subject now.
God Almighty,
Jesus, if he is God Almighty, He is a powerless God in inverted commas. powerless. Jesus said, this is this is what he said. He said, I can have my own self do nothing. You know, it's nothing, nothing is nothing.
He can do nothing of himself his own power. He's got no power to do anything. JOHN, chapter five, verse 30. Sir,
he does say all power is given to me, is given to him. I can give you a general power of attorney to act on my behalf. You can do what I do. You can sell my property if I give you the power of attorney.
So he says all power is given to me. It's not mine. The power is given to me. It's not it belongs to God. He can take it from you to somebody else. That's his business his prerogative.
Then,
I give you something if you remember this, you can win a Bible quiz.
You can win a Bible quiz, the shortest sentence in the Bible. Short a sentence only two words. Remember this enemy, shot a sentence in the Bible. If you remember this, you can win a quiz.
The heading here is a weeping God, a God who cries in inverted commas. Can you imagine God crying like a baby?
But, but this is what I'm reading john, Chapter 11 verse 35, sir, siding with his hearing.
john chapter 11, verse 35, Jesus wept that he wept.
You know, as the occasion
Lazarus,
Lazarus, his friend had died.
You see, the greatest miracle of Jesus was not turning water into wine. He made another false shot against me by saying that I said that Moses is greater than Jesus. That's another lie.
I want you to prove that that I said.
You have your 10 minutes.
Remember the words. Remember the words that I said that Moses was greater than Jesus. Remember the words. That's it?
That's a that's what you said.
So I take exception to that. I said, I never said any such thing I know it's not in my mind. I never think like that, that I would talk like that.
Hmm. So the greatest miracle of Jesus is, we all will have commonalities giving life to the dead. This is the prerogative of God. Only God can give life he takes life and he gives life.
So the Christian says, look, Jesus gave life to the dead. I said, Does he say that?
Does he say that he gave to the dead? No, this is your understanding. But as he didn't give life to the dead, he didn't read this, john, I just give you the reference just now. read the chapter. Lazarus dies, a friend of Jesus. And he goes to the village, and he meets Martha, and the other Mary. And they tell him he says, you know, Master, if you were here, you know, you could have saved my brother from my brother from dying. You know, you can heal other people. You can help them. Why could you have not have saved my wife, my brother from dying? So Jesus says that even now, if you have faith, you shall see the glory of God, you shall see the glory of God.
Where have you lead him? So they lead him to the separator
aboveground separator not grave, they lead him to the separator and on the way, Jesus is groaning. That's what your Bible says. He's groaning in the spirit is mooning. What is that? You see, we are crying bitterly. And we utter words which are not audible to the people around as they sing, we are moaning, we are groaning. In actual fact, he is pouring out his heart to God. So oh my lord, oh, my father, you know, my friend Lazarus has died. You please give backlash to him. He's crying to God. But the people they can't hear what actually he's saying. So they say he's groaning. He's moaning. He's not groaning and not mourning, he's praying.
And when it comes to the tomb, or before reaching the tomb, he stands there. And he says, Oh, my father.
I know that that has heard me and I know that that hears me always. Whatever I do, that I by the finger of God cast out devils, I, by the Spirit of God, do this in everything is God, God, God working through him. I know that that has heard me my prayer. And I know that our nearest me always every time I'll ask for anything you give it to me. But because of the people that stood by this superstitious credulous people, because of these people, I'm saying this, I'm putting up an act, that these fools might not think that I am God, I'm giving life to the dead, therefore, I'm making this performance. I said it that they may believe that God has sent me.
That's the reason why I'm talking like this. Then he says, Lazarus, Lazarus come out. And Lazarus came out. After three days, perhaps thinking from his grave. He says, hallelujah. Alhamdulillah, hallelujah. This is Praise be to Allah. That's what it means. Yahoo. We say the Christians hallelujah. Same. We say Praise be to God. Where does Jesus say he gave life to Lazarus, he's telling you, and he says, Look, I don't want these people to understand, misunderstand. But now we have misunderstood 1000 million Christians in the world. They all have misunderstood. They said Jesus gave life to the dead. He doesn't say that is God working through him. And Peter, the greatest
of the disciples, Jesus appointed him as Peter is given the keys of the heavens, Peter, Feed my flock, Feed my sheep with my followers. This Peter, in the book of Acts, he says, He says, Ye men of Israel, are Jews struggling to the Jews, hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, and men approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him.
Who did it?
And the speed at his line, and the Holy Spirit that's inspiring him his line, which God did by him in the midst of you, which you yourself also know who direct God. The power is there, you burn the switch, the power comes on. You didn't supply that electricity is coming from the power house.
Similarly, Jesus is talking, his attorney is playing is asking and he's getting who's God.
Jesus is God. He is described as a sleepy God. God doesn't sleep. The Quran says neither slumber no sleep overtake him. But this God with inverted commas, if he was God, I'm reading Matthew chapter eight, verse 24. He was asleep.
God sleeping. He was asleep.
Luke, chapter eight was 23 he fell asleep. God
Falling asleep. Mark chapter four was studied, and he was in the handle part of the ship asleep on a pillow. But
please, please
read this
heading is a thirsty God inverted for God in inverted commas. If Jesus is God in inverted commas, he said, he Jesus, he said, I cursed. You know, I'm thirsty. By God, I am
thirsty, Jesus. God is thirsty. I'm thirsty, I'm drinking, I'm thirsty.
Is it the color of God? I cursed
with God, inverted commas, God, Jesus, therefore, being wearied, got tired, fatigued with this journey.
set us
on the well. JOHN, Chapter Four. Verse six is sorrowing God in inverted commas, God and he began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Matthew chapter 26, verse 37, then said he unto them, my soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death. Matthew, chapter 26, verse 38, a groaning God, we had dealt with it already.
And with regards to the prophecies, you see, one of the points that has been put forward was the prophecies.
One of the points was the prophecies,
as is now when you look at the prophecies.
Hopefully everybody's waiting for Jesus, anytime, anytime. Now. The Jehovah's Witnesses the masterful technique they have, you know, they don't build churches, they don't build schools, no hospitals, no orphanages, nothing. They just do their job, because you know why? They don't like farms in South Africa. No farms, no buildings, nothing. The higher halls, they call them Kingdom halls, master will technique any minute Jesus is coming any minute and you work people up into a frenzy. But this frenzy is going on for 2000 years.
Based on I'm reading Mark, chapter 13, verses 26 and 27. It says,
then they will see the Son of Man coming in the cloud with great power and glory,
then they will see, the Son of Man means Jesus Christ coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send his angels and gather together his elect from the four winds from the farthest part of the Earth to the farthest part of heaven.
assuredly will study I say to you, this generation, this generation, the generation is talking to this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. But did the people understand they understood exactly what it says? And they were waiting every time they saw a cloud, that anytime Jesus is coming, anytime This is coming, and people have been selling them over this 2000 years, they get their workouts and figures and Zurich 1914. Jesus is coming 1918 Jesus is coming. And people sell the properties and everything. And if I finish them script, he hasn't come. He hasn't come 2000 years have gone because the misunderstanding was given any time now any moment,
heaven on earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.
Matthew tells us
making it clearer. Chapter 10 verse 23, but when they persecute you, in this city, persecute you, the followers of Christ when they persecute you, in this city,
flee to another and to another city. For assuredly more surely I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes back. And they fled and they've persecuted early Christians were persecuted and they fled and they fled and they perished. 2000 years have gone false hopes anytime, anytime and they went and they believe that before we can run out of Sweden, we go from here to Gothenburg and from Gothenburg to way, way way, and Jesus will be there. And people went through all the cities and they died and the bones have rotted in the grave. But he has not come yet. But the emotionalism is there. You can be worked up into a frenzy to sell your properties,
divorce your wife and children and go out into the wilderness. It can be done. This is how that suicide cult in America versus Reverend Jim
Jones he did it. He made his followers 911 of them 100% everybody to commit suicide
by drinking lemonade laced with cyanide, he made them all to drink. Can you imagine? This is how emotionalism is worked up, they can make you to do things, just because any minute any time, but 2000 years have gone and the promised return has not occurred yet.
Now regarding it becomes absurd when you think that Jesus is God, as a man, we love him, I respect him, despite him leaving him. But when you say is God, then he must have the qualities of God, what is God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth? Did he greatness you say so Paul says so so and so says so did Jesus say that, that I created the heavens and the earth? No, he doesn't say that. So now it's as if he is God.
Who's he was what what was his occupation? This God when he walked with us for 30 years, 33 years, what was his occupation? Jesus was a carpenter by trade this God was a carpenter by trade. Mark chapter six, verse three, Matthew 1355 says, and the son of a carpenter, he is a carpenter and the son of a carpenter, this lesson between
the warring God the God who is going out of warring, the strong arm method of God in inverted commas, stronger method, and he went into the temple and began to cast out vim, that soul wearing them that bought and when he had made a scourge, with Jesus Christ, of small chords, he got them all chords together and made into a whip. He drove them all out of the temple, with a whip.
And the sheep and the oxen all beat them all out of the temple, and poured out the changes money and overthrew the tables.
And when he marched on to Jerusalem, you see, when he marched with his disciples to Jerusalem, and they making a big noise hosana, to the son of David Hosanna, to the king of Israel, throwing flowers on the way, and the Jews demonstrate with Jesus is that Look, man, subdue your disciples, otherwise things might go out of hand. So Jesus says, He, if we disturb you, them, if you silence them, even the Hawks will cry, in that new wood, is marching on to Jerusalem, and he's telling his disciples, a story, a parable of what is going to happen, or what he expects them to do. He says, For those mind, enemies,
who will not that I should rule over them.
My enemies who don't want me to rule to be the ruler over them, King over them, bring them hither, and slay them before me.
The throat.
You're talking about the meek and gentle Jesus, you know, Muhammad, Muhammad in Islam, you know, you can give away a slight beating. What a mountain he made out of that. I said, like Jesus Christ is telling people chop off their heads. You don't want me to rule you and Jesus, then best thing. I have your hips chopped off, slit your throat.
And he's racial. God Almighty, can you be racial? The past has been condemning the racism of South Africa, the apartheid regime in my country, you know about it, what they did to us for 300 years, these Christians, good Christians, regular churchgoers, and I'm told by them, that the creators of races are the most regular churchgoers, they are the greatest races. They believe
that you know, the sons of Noah has Sam Ham and Japheth. They the white people, they are the sons of Sam, Sam, and we are the children of ham and not cursed to all the black races of the earth, whether Chinese or Indian or Africans. And as such they had a right to lord it over us enslave us for 300 years they did it. Thanks to the Scandinavians Thank you, sir, for you know, speaking on our behalf, and there is some change taking place now. But racism.
If Jesus is God, then this God in inverted commas is a tribal Jew.
I read it to you Revelation, chapter five, verse five, is that the lion of the tribe of Judah, Jesus is the lion of the tribe of Judah. He is a tribal Jew.
that matches chapter 15, verse 24.
He says this God came only for the Jews. This God only came for the Jews I'm reading but he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel, you Scandinavians you sweet Are you the Lordship of the house of Israel? I don't know. And the British and the French
The Germans are you the Lordship of the house of Israel? That's what Jesus says, I am not sent, but unto the Lordship of the house of Israel, the Jews, the titles of this God, if he's God, he says, The King of the Jews met us to to, he is the king of the Jews, john 149, and posterity 13. He is the king of Israel,
the kingdom of God, and He and he, Jesus shall reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom, there shall be no end. That was the promise made Luke 133 he was going to rule over the kingdom of Jacob over the over the, the house of Jacob means the Jews and of his kingdom, there'll be no end. But instead of him ruling, we know what happened. It was Pontius Pilate sitting on the throne of his father David, and passing judgment on him. Amazing. He was supposed to be the ruler forever. I don't know. The Swedish language, whether you have the word forever, I know in English ever means forever. It doesn't mean for a day or a minute, or a year forever. And it hasn't happened
yet. Even today, after 2000 years, his enemies are sitting in Jerusalem.
As a miracle worker,
Jesus says Many will say to me on that day, you see, the Christians are boasting, they, they expert, exercise devils from people, and they heal the sick and the blind and the lepers. That's what they are claiming. In the name of Jesus. You ask any missionary in whose name you did in the name of the Lord Jesus? Again? How did you do it spirit in the name of the Lord Jesus? Amen. Amen. Now, we want to know what Jesus says about you. Those who are doing all these miracles in the name of the Lord Jesus. He says, In Matthew chapter seven, verses 22. And 23, says many, many will say to me on that day, the last day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in the name, and in the name cast out devils, and
in thy name do many mighty works?
These are the preachers who are boasting that they're healed the blind and the lepers and the quick and the dead, let's say even spiritually, they are doing this in the name of the Lord Jesus. Lord, Jesus says, what does he say to you? What will he say? Is it then will I profess unto them, I never knew you depart from me, he that work iniquity, get away out of my sight, in Surah sugandha? Give me Nina abans Oh, boo, be rubbish. Get out of my sight. Amazing. You have done all these things, sacrificing your life, your family and everything going to Pakistan and Indonesia, and in Africa, with all the dust and the flies and the sicknesses around and you did all this. And Jesus is going
to tell you, sir, get away from me. I don't even know you. I want you to explain to them
miracles, these miracles that the Christian is boasting about miracles. Jesus says, I'm sorry, I beg your pardon. Matthew, chapter seven, verse 15. Matthew says, The Holy Spirit is supposed to be inspiring Matthew. He says, Beware of false prophets. He says Beware of false prophets that come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly I ravening wolves, beware of them. It says, For the shall arise.
Mark, chapter 10, verse 22, is that for they shall arise many false prophets and false Christ, who will show you great signs and wonders if it were possible to deceive the very elect. So this is not the test, that you are a good man, that you are a true believer or a test, all your miracles are no test because we are told that even false prophets and false guys can do that. And they will do to such an extent such a degree that even the disciples of Jesus can be misled and deceived
with regard to the person's story last night.
See, thank you. You see, with regard to the poisoned story, the young man had a just question.
He was justified in asking it just question. It was a matter of faith.
You have faith, then I want proof and Jesus Christ if it was him in the Gospel of St. Mark
chapter 16
The ending verses verse 17. You read it, you read it, that what you are supposed to do, but you know in this Bible here, that verse is not your
pastor, that verse nine to nine to 20 verses of Makkah, not here. I don't know if anybody here, young man, can you read English? No, you can't.
Pastor, would you like to help me? Look in this Bible here produced by the Christians 32 scholars of the highest eminence backed by 50 cooperating denominations of Christian then they have thrown it out as a fabrication
versus nine to 20 are thrown out there not here, sir, in this Bible. But of course, as I told you last night,
that now they have reintroduce it in this one, the look alike, but they took it out here and they put it back. You know why? This is because of certain individuals and church denominations? They did. They terrified them, like people are trying to terrify us. Somebody has been phoning the pastor, somebody send me a telegram, Muslim bat cap, maybe some Muslim Matt cap to him some Christian Matt caps we have lunatic fringe is among all communities. And in South Africa, I get phone calls, and I get letters from the Jews, from the Christians, from the Hindus, and even from Muslims threatening my life, what do I do? These are the hazards of occupation. These are the
hazards of your occupation, you can expect that in one of the greatest democracy in America 75% of the presidents of the United States 75% have been assassinated, or attempts have been made on the life True or false? 75%. So this is the hazard of occupation. So my occupation, you should expect these things that shouldn't terrify you to throw in the towel is as normal, I won't preach to anybody anymore. No, you don't do that, sir, we must share again and again, the next meeting should take place in the globe, in the globe, in your stock on, then we should get 12,000 people there and discuss about the crucifixion of Christ or anything else. Let us share the platform and share our
knowledge with the people. So
that was
that was
that verse, it says, and these signs sign shall follow them that believe. If you believe in Jesus, these are the signs that will follow in my name shall be cast out devils.
And the pastor said, You got the devil. You are the devil telling the young person that Timothy young man, you know, he was terrified to articulate this question. And now with all the power at his command with a mic system behind him say you are that devil. That poor man is shivering in his pants, you know, and now you have got the power God had given it to you. You should cast out the devil. He is the man.
Instead of terrifying him into debt. He's the man you're supposed to be number one cast out devils, and they should speak new tongues. The professor does it beautifully in Urdu. So what about Zulu?
What about Zulu? Can you speak? ninja ninja ninja booty?
boutique kung fu Salah.
Talking about tongues. tongues means speaking different languages. For every one language for every one language that the pastor can speak. I'll give him three foreign languages for everyone who speaks
and that is without the help of any Holy Ghost. No Holy Ghost are built on our own God given
of you that
they shall speak new tongues. They shall take up serpents snakes, we can look for serpents in Scandinavia. And if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them. If you have belief if you have faith, so that young man was trying to test his faith. Instead he loses his temper. He's lost his faith with it. Faith also goes with it. So with these words, I'm very, very grateful for this opportunity, Pastor for you creating this opportunity that I can come into this house of God and share my thoughts with you all waffle down.
The evil spirit of that man who came up with a poison was cast it out
by prayer as my wife embraced him and told him that God loved him.
him and she prayed for him until he was very calm.
I don't, I don't think and I will be sure that this man will not try to kill me tonight. And that's the evidence, the demon is cast it out.
Now this booklet has been published by Islamic Propagation center in Durban, where you are the precedent, you don't have your name on it. But the very interesting thing is the main part of your
of your message tonight is what is written in this booklet.
And I want to give you the scriptures where Jesus explains his divinity. He says in Matthew, Matthew, 19, and 24, where two or three are gathered together in my name, there Am I in the midst of them, He gives himself divine quality, being present as God wherever people pray, and then Jesus says, All power is given unto me, in heaven. And in earth. Could it be more clear than that?
And in john five, I read it before Jesus says about himself.
For as the Father raises up the dead, and quick enough them, even so the son quickeneth, whom he will,
and the father has committed all judgment unto the Son, Jesus is telling us, I am God, because I am going to judge mankind.
And in Philippians, the second chapter it says, every knee should bow, unto the name of Jesus, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth. So Jesus is going to be worshipped.
And in the book of Revelation, Jesus says himself, fear not, I am the first and the last. Before that, he said, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. I am he that lives I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of hell and of death. Jesus declares divine authority. But during the time when Jesus appeared on Earth, there were so many that called themselves Messiah. So he used
another way to manifest himself. He did, things God does. And he allowed people to give the witness about whom he is, but at the same time, he did say it, he did say it. Now, I've made the doubt in one way.
You always speak with a double tongue. I'm sorry to say that because you opened up and said that you don't make a challenge you only given appeal. But today you said that you look at these discussions as a boxing match. And you
say that you believe in Jesus, that he is Christ, and then you you spend one hour denying this Jesus and making your mocking and and and bless feeling our Jesus Christ? Because there is one thing you don't understand you have raised around 30 different questions. And this is also the tactics of the Muslims in this discussion, because you have come here to challenge my Christian faith. And the Muslims have told me don't say anything against the Quran. And then you asked me to speak before you and then you give me 10 minutes to answer 30 questions.
It's not fair.
But
I just want to tell you, that all what you don't understand
Stand is what the Bible says, that great love of God. He.
It says, like this,
that Jesus,
being equal with God, in the form of God
made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. Why, scorn and muck and bless feed this Jesus, when he came and wept with the people in sorrow?
Why make funny stories about Jesus being hungry, when he wanted to identify with a starving people, never Muslims make anything to help the refugees, the Christians have to do it.
Jesus, Jesus was willing to become an ordinary man. And he prayed unto his father during that time, he felt pain, he was sleepy, that is fully right. And when he talked to the fig tree, you have not read the Bible. This is what I always say. Because if you knew the Bible, you knew that Jesus, when he spoke to the fig tree, he knew that in the Old Testament, Israel always was illustrated as a fig tree. And Jesus prophesied against Israel at that time, there are explanations on every attack that you have on Christianity. And when you say that Jesus is a racist,
I get upset. Because Jesus, he said, Go into all the world and make all kinds of people, my disciples, and he explained how they should start in Jerusalem, and then in Judaism, and then go further on to sumeria and then into the whole world. And this was the strategy of Jesus, those verses you quote, I mean, if I'm going to carry away as we did, listen, here, we gave to every three year when Eritrea and Ethiopia was starving, we gave 1 million kilos of wheat from my church.
And we sent it, listen, we sent it with a boat, but do you make a joke? Do you mock me? Do you? Bless him me, if I must say that, because of our limitations, we had to take 25 kilos
first, and then we took 25 more, and then 100 kilo, and then 1000 kilo. And if I said, the first hours, we take only 500 kilo, then we will continue with 500 more. Jesus said, not I have just come now to the Israelis. I must start here in Jerusalem in Judea in sumeria. But then he declared, and you always keep quiet about what the Bible says in its constant in its context. This is your tactic all over the world. Jesus said, My love is for the whole world.
Time is out. And this is very typical.
Many questions, no time to ask to answer.
We thank you, Mr. Stanley shoberg. And Jasmine did that for their speeches.
Now ladies and gentlemen, we're going to proceed to the session where it's going to be your turn to ask questions. We have not yet told or informed about how this is going to go about. So I don't think there's any idea that you lined up yet.
We have to be finishing this session at 10 o'clock tonight. So we will have about one hour.
And my co Chairman here will inform you about the rules of the question. Please listen carefully. Thank you.
Sisters and brothers we have now come to the question time there is a mic in front here, could you please form a queue facing the mic?
The queue can run along round the corner to the gangway so that it is an orderly queue.
Thank you.
Yes.
Now in order for the questions to be conducted efficiently and faily
brothers and sisters, would you please pay attention, sisters and brothers?
Please pay attention. Thank you.
In order for the questions to be conducted fairly and efficiently, there are certain rules that we must follow.
First of all, please will you present your question relating to the topic in hand? That is his Jesus God.
And please do remember that it is question time and not lecturing time. If you wish to deliver a lecture, perhaps you will make some arrangements with Pastor Stanley and he may be able to organize that for you in which case we shall come and listen to you.
And only one question at a time please, if you wish to make or ask more questions, please go to the end of the queue. And wait your turn again.
Please also
present your question
in a brief and concise manner, and to the point.
Lastly, brothers and sisters, as there are two speakers here. And we have to be fair to both of them. The questions will be treated in an alternative order. So that we shall have first question for pastor Stanley. The next question will then be for Mr. D, dad, and so on until we run out of time. Thank you.
We also want to inform that the last question will be allowed at 10 to 10.
So the first question goes to Mr. Stanley shoberg.
I'm a Muslim woman Swedish, I have converted to Islam, because I get so confused with uglies with the church, excuse me, I speak French.
Because I always wonder if I'm going to pray to God, or if I going to pray to Jesus, or if I pray to Jesus, before God,
or I don't understand this, this is very confusing. And I say so when I turn to when I come to Islam, I have this clear, clear for me, it's only one God. And I believe it's been its way I don't want to.
I believe in Jesus too. But I want to say that he he was also flesh and blood, like you and me. And we are always all all human beings. And I hope you understand my question. I do fully understand your question.
And the Bible tells us that we should pray unto God, and there is no conflict within the Trinity as the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are one as God is one. And if you pray to God the Father or you talk to Jesus, or you ask for guidance of the Holy Spirit, you talk and address the same God. But Jesus came into this world in order to reconcile mankind with God, and therefore we are taught to pray in the name of Jesus, because as Jesus resurrected from death
He resurrected in a heavenly body. You said here before, that Jesus could not be God as He could eat, but like the angels and God consumed the sacrifices in the Old Testament, Jesus in His heavenly body, he is divine, in spite of his revelation in front of the disciples, so you pray to God in the name of Jesus, that's the way to come in close contact with God. Thank you so much sugar.
The next question will go to admit that
Salaam Alaikum
My question is to Mr. Medina. First of all, I like to thank him very much for all the help he has given me personally and to many other people like me, who
who have embraced Islam and who this used to be my church 8485. This used to be my church. Now, my question is,
I would like Mr. deeded to explain a little bit more about
refute to refute more of the Trinitarian doctrine. And, if possible, to give us a little bit of a history of the development of that doctrine.
The Trinity, we know that it was a result of a long period of theological infighting that divinity of Jesus Christ and holy nature was established, and that this debate actually took place in Alexandria between 316 and 323 bc in Egypt, between an African Athanasius and areas.
Air Athanasius his point is, if Jesus Christ is the Son of God, he must be younger than God. And since God is eternal, you cannot be gone. I like Mr. deedat. Anyway, to explain a bit about this. Thank you. Thank you.
Before I give
any understanding of the Trinity, I must thank the almighty as Alhamdulillah Praise be to Allah for saving my neck.
The pastor, he had 10 minutes, and the Bible in his hand, he couldn't give what I was asking. I said one phrase, one sentence in the Bible, where Jesus says, I am God, where he says, worship me, thank God, he failed, and I knew that therefore I took a chance Otherwise, I would never have taken such a chance.
With regards to Trinity,
you ask the trinitarians as the trinitarians. They believe the father is God the Son is God and the Holy Ghost is God. But they are not three Gods but one God. And they continue in their catechism, that the Father is almighty the son is almighty and the Holy Ghost is almighty, but they are not three Almighty is but one almighty. That's how the Catechism goes. And it proceeds. The father is a person the son is a person and the Holy Ghost is a person, but they are not 3% or one person.
I'm asking the English speaking people because I can't speak Swedish. The English speaking people, as they do words, do they have any meaning in your language? Do they have any meaning? Or you just utter words without any meaning? You said person, person, person, but not 3%? That one person? I said What language are you speaking to? Because I'm English. They taught me the British had taught me English.
So What language are you speaking this is not English, this is gibberish. Not even Greek. This is gibberish, person, person, person, but not 3%. Or one person, as if you any one of you. And your two other brothers are identical triplets, identical, we can make the difference between the three of you. If one of you commit murder, can we hang the other? says Why not? You all look alike.
So this is no You see, I am a different person. So what makes you a different person? Your personality. Now in your mind, the father is different. The son is different than the Holy Ghost is different. When you say in the name of the Father, you have a certain mental picture of the old Father Christmas, bigger than anything that we can imagine millions and millions of times bigger than men but something like a man with the heavens his canopy and the earth is his footstool, the loving Father in heaven. When you say got the sun, what are you thinking of a price moon or a forefather? No, you think
With a handsome young man,
like what you saw in the King of kings, with Jeffrey Hunter was acting
blond hair, blue eyes, and Nordic type, a Scandinavian type not a Jewish type. He doesn't look like a Jew. There's one.
There's a picture of Jesus Christ. They're at the back here, where they gave me a place to rest before coming over here on the wall. And you see handsome young man like a Norwegian or a Swede, blue eyes and all and you see a halo on his head.
If they allow you go and have a look, there is a halo on his head. So we didn't get the halo from you know, the green neon light green, suspended in a dedicated fan is the Bible says that the day the halo around his head is the juicer any such thing? No. But you see, now we are all programmed into thinking and believing anything, everything that the man says with force we accept. So as a dis Trinity,
is thrown out the verse on the Trinity, the first episode of john chapter five, verse seven, verses four, there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one is taken out thrown out of this Bible, the Revised Standard Version as a fabrication is not here is taken up.
Why? Because this was a note made by a certain vigilance of taxes in the sixth century, for his own edification, of the edification of his children. Which when the publishers when they came across a manuscript, that marginal note came into the text, it crept in into the text. Now your scholars now discover that this is a fabrication. This is a note, this is not the works of john. So they took it out, as a fabrication as an interpolation. Jesus Christ, he never taught the Trinity.
When he was questioned Gospel of St. Mark, a learned man of the Jew comes and asked him is his master in the Hebrew language, Rabbi, what commandment is the first of all? And Jesus answered, and said unto him, the first is Shema Yisrael, Adonai eloheinu, Adonai, se, Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one, he repeated word for word, what was given by Moses and 1300 years before without the change of a.if Trinity was what he came to teach. That was the right moment to educate the guy, for there are three that bear according heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one, he never said any such thing, he merely reminded him about what Moses had
given 1300 years before. So there is no such thing as a trinity as taught in the Bible by Jesus Christ.
Next question goes to Mr. Stanley.
Stanley, I really have great respect for your concern of being maybe killed or being traded, I do believe you, because there is a lot of so called Muslim losing their temper. I'm sorry for them.
The second thing that I would love to because you pointed yesterday, you point today, again, you know, is that you say in which with all the truth, that you helped a lot of Muslim that you send food to Eritrea to achieve an outcome. But the problem that you don't care, none of those countries, even the condoms of Muslim have a Muslim government. They are government or copy of Europe.
for quite a while. Now came to my question. My question is very easy.
My question is that the gospels are 10 lies, they are saying that Jesus lies such a great man in john Seven.
Eight to 10 is telling exactly that Jesus, tell them to tabernas to go up to the feast
with his brother, but don't tell them and Cayman.
whispers john seven from eight to 10. And he told them, don't tell them that I'm Kevin.
Or I'm going up to the feast. And then he went up again with his brother, not publicly, but in private.
That's mean, the gospel
is declaratively saying clearly that Jesus lied, because he told his brothers tell them I'm not coming to the feast.
Then he went up on privates. The second thing in my question is in the Old Testament, a lot
Genesis 1935 36.
There is one question is this in Genesis is saying that lot his daughters made up their mind to make love to him and to have kids. Are you in Christianity?
stimulating? incest.
Thank you, sir.
Please, sir,
I will be able to answer
concerning
Islamic governments, I did not know that you do not believe that Iran has a government made up of Muslims. I do not. I did not know that Pakistan is a non Muslim country. I did not know that. But I have heard that actually Iran and Pakistan, they are built up by Muslims. And the same with Iraq, even if you don't like saddam and saying that the Kurds they are Muslims. And we did help the Kurds we work with Muslims if they are on the government of someone else, or under a real Islamic laws.
And
concerning Mr. de da.
Tonight, I allow myself to become angry because I experience a dishonest behavior. And I am full of breath because Mr. DITA behaves like a Nazi officer, Chris Channing. Silent Yes,
questioning it pour in prisons, man under torture, because you demand from Jesus, that he shall present himself according to how you want him to form his vocabulary. And Mr. DITA Jesus is greater than you are. And when he declares that he is God. And the Bible declares that all or under his feet, even a child should understand that if Jesus tells that, to me is given all miton power, even the child understands, then you should pray to Him.
And then, concerning Jesus, as you say, you believe in and all the time, you want to miss credit our Jesus, and then you try to lift up someone else whom you called Jesus Christ. Now we who know the Bible, we know we must be careful in these days, because now you said that we have been waiting for Jesus to come back for 2000 years. And I'll tell you that Jesus you talk about and you want to lift up is not our Jesus. The Bible talks about a figure in the time that will come and proclaim himself as Christ Messiah, but he is the Antichrist, and he will have a false prophet at his side. Now, why do you say that Jesus is lying when he's when it is written in john seven? quoting what what Jesus
said himself, now go gee up unto the feast. I go not up yet unto this feast, for my time is not yet full come. So listen. Jesus said, Now you go, because I am not ready yet I will stay at home and pray and prepare my inner spirit. Because when I arrived in Jerusalem, I'll come a few days later than you. You go. I will come a few days later. And then when he came, he blessed the people as God bless people, and don't say that my Jesus is telling lies, he does not.
The next question goes to Mr. D that and as we see the line here, getting longer and longer, we have to suggest for the sake of all of us here, that we are as precise and
Short in our questioning as possible, and also that please the speakers would respect this time limit and that we would keep as short as possible. Thank you.
My question in very short, in the Old Testament, we was taught that I buy i, t by T's, revenge, etc, etc. We grow up Jesus came, he taught us all of these things, if you might know, and I'm quite sure you know. But let me interrupt you interrupt the sisters and ask you one question before you said that you believe in God sees God has character. He knows the future. He knows the past. He knows the presence. He doesn't change his mind. You agree? I go on.
Jesus came, and I'm quite sure that what I'm saying here you find in any of these books, and you might find it in column two. Jesus came and taught us if one slap you on the right cheek, give him the left one, sympathy, mercy, no violence, love shurlock.
He taught us if one asked you to go a mile with him go to if he asked you to give him your dress. When he asked his
bicycles Larian to go and preach in the world. He told them, go and preach my word in peace, no violence. If we accept your word, take it. If you don't take it, go and go on. Why after five? No, sorry, 600 years, the God whom you believe. And I do. How he changed his mind the game. He tells me
the one who hates you hit him again. Go and preach in my name. And if they don't accept my name, and my word kill them, if your wife Miss, if your wife does, unfaithful to you, kill her kill, punish, kill, punish Hate, hate hate. Thank you. You raise me up? Why you take me very much down again, sir. Your question is clear. Thank you.
Silence please, thank you. Well, here's some more hot steam.
The brother said, Islam says the teaching of Jesus was turning the other cheek. romantics via code. Junior cloak also agree with an adversary quickly, Jesus said before they take you before the magistrate and make you to pass with your last father. But now you said God doesn't change his mind. But he had given you a law An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. You are a Christian today. From your question I make out you're a Christian. Right? But now God changed his mind.
Then he changed his mind. First was eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Nice telling him you resist not evil. When a man hits you in the right cheek in the other, he changed his mind. He changed his mind according to your Bible. Wait a minute. And then again. He told you God told you that who saw our puts away his wife. Let him give her a bill of divorcement. But Jesus But I say unto you, Whosoever puts away his wife, say for the cause of fornication causes her to commit adultery. And whosoever medicine that is there was committed adultery, he changed his mind again. And it's changing his mind continuously. But you said God doesn't change his mind. Now you will have
to account or the pastor will have to account for that not me. When you say make allegation against the Quran. The Quran says that if anybody does not accept this lamb chop off his head kill him. Here is the Quran. And you have up to 10 o'clock to find that was entrusted to us. I'll read it for the people.
Thank you.
My question is that you say Jesus Christ died for our sins. That happened some 2000 years ago. Mankind has been in existence for 1000s of years. sins are not decreasing. They are increasing. Look in North America, look in South America, look in Asia, look in Africa, scenes, alcohol, drugs, rape, incest is increasing when we get another Jesus to come and die for our sins. Thank you.
The answer is this. The answer is this. Please
When the Bible explains the battle between God and the devil, between good and evil,
the Bible explains that God has a plan for salvation and restoration. But this is a difficult struggle even for God. Because mankind turns its back toward God, Time after time. Now, what Jesus did, when he died at the cross, He gave us all for all generations a possibility to receive forgiveness as we repent.
But the real victory over evil, and over the devil has not yet been seen. And the Bible says, I don't know, I don't understand why it takes so much time. But the Bible says that evil is a force of respectable character. And this evil powers, they are stronger because so many turn their back toward God.
We don't need another Jesus to take our sin and guilt. There is forgiveness in the very moment we repent. And the Bible says that in this time, very soon, Jesus will come in glory, not to die again, but to manifest his power. And then there will be peace, Satan will be bound, evil spirits will be removed from Earth, and God will be suffering. That's the answer from the Bible. And we pray for that. And I wish we all could work in that direction.
Thank you.
Next question goes to Mr. Hoffman. That
first of all, I have to agree with
that silence. Last evenings really has made us Christians upset.
emotionally upset.
A Mr. Akhmad did that yesterday evening.
You said that my holy boo.
Sorry, Silence please. Thank you. Bye, Hulu. The Bible is the most dangerous book, which ever has been written in the world.
What are you talking about?
What in hell are you talking about? I'm sorry, I'm using that word in the church. Your question please. Thanks, I have been you I have to tell this. I have been married to any
Muslim doctor. And I had two children. And I have had wonderful Muslim parents in law, but either completely different from you. Do they have got to make do they followed everything from the Quran?
respect them, because they respected my service. Come to your question. Now. You talked about the occupation.
My question will be worth was the occupation of the Prophet Muhammad. And how old was his donkey sprite when he married her?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Sons, please question goes to Mr. F. Nada.
Please respect the time limits so we can have as many questions as possibly answered. Thank you. Silence please, my dear sister, my dear sister.
I couldn't grasp everything that you said. But you made certain allegations that I had said that the Bible is the most dangerous book on Earth, everything.
You don't remember exactly what I said. I will tell you what I said. And you can confirm or deny. I said in the words of George Bernard Shaw, as George Bernard Shaw says that this is the most dangerous book on Earth. Keep it under lock and key as a George Bernard
Shaw says that
there's a videotape videos are being made, you can have it confirmed. And I hope and pray that I come again to Scandinavia to Stockholm. And if you can find that I said that exact words. These are the words of and the plain truth is, you know, a many a sensor will give it an X rating. Now, out of respect for my brothers and sisters, my sisters and my children, I am ashamed to quote you the Bible. I asked Jimmy Swaggart, I challenged him as I give you $100 if you will read
this portion of the Bible, and I open Ezekiel, chapter 23. And I gave it to him. And that tape is also available here, videotape my debate with swagger. And you watch, he takes the Bible.
And he scans Ezekiel 23.
And he puts this Bible on the what he called the rostrum upside down. He takes his own Bible, and he repeats it. And I lost $100.
I lost dollars. Do you know why?
I lost $100 to Jimmy Swaggart for reading that. You see, he had played a trick
upon the audience, and I was not equivalent to start scribbling. So you see, you know, you did add No, no, no, don't do that with a smiling face. I took out the nose and I gave it to him. Jimmy Swaggart, it's on tape. What he did was, you see what I gave him was in Simple English, modern English, where it calls a spade a spade. He scan that he knew he can read that even he with whatever we discover about him later on. Even with all those propensities, he did not read what I gave him the Bible.
He takes the authorized King James Version, and the rare 60 miles an hour. See some Arab students in Baton Rouge? They asking me the next morning is that uncle? What happened? We don't know. I said, you see, you know, he, you challenge him? And you know, he did something and you gave him $100? Why?
So I said, you see this man?
number of things he did, which made him 200. Number one, he didn't read what I gave him.
Number two, he was reading 60 miles an hour son of men. They were two women, daughters, one mother and the community whoredoms in the youth recommend Hortons in Egypt. And there was a press press and they the bruise the teeth of the virginity, the ordinary and he can catch whoredom. What is
his thinking? What is it? What do you say? And before he can grasp what he could have said he's gone 10 miles beyond the speed with which he was reading the archaic English that he was reading. And pornography to the American young men is not pornography. They are used to it day and night, 24 hours a day you see it on TV live. So these are the things I don't know if you want personally, you know, the opportunity of wanting me to read it to you as a healer, Chapter 16. You read about the Egyptians,
the Egyptian she spoke about an Egyptian husband speak about the Egyptians and it says great of flesh. Now what do you understand that
these are Egyptians and the Syrians, great of flesh, they couldn't satisfy associate these Jews, Jews prostitutes, Ezekiel chapter 16.
I can't read it to you. But if the pastor wants to, I can open up Ezekiel chapter 16. And if the pastor did to read it, it says privilege. Thank you
for seeing next question, and it will be asked to Mr. Stanley shoberg.
Silence please from everyone in the hall. Thank you.
Pastor Stanley.
Indeed, I'm a bit disappointed
because you a man of your religious stature
to stand here and really call us Muslims as immigrants in this country.
telling people how much you have helped us
and all that. At the same time.
I believe you speak in a double tongue. Excuse me, excuse the expression because you used it yourself.
Well, I'm sorry. I'm
I'm sorry, I'm not used to speaking in public. So my heart is pounding.
With is he you keep pounding into the hearts of the people that we Muslims, we hate Jews, you make an equal sign between us and how to say narcissists.
And you forget that we are living in this country, where right now racial racism is rising very much. Now, I want to ask you one one simple question. Did your did Jesus your God tell you to treat people that way? Thank you.
I want to give you an answer.
If you invite me
to a meeting, in which you want to challenge my faith,
and when I come,
and I also have to pay some money, in order to come, I share some of your expenses. And then I come to you. And your contribution to me is to give me poison to kill me, then I must tell you that I have a better Christian character. When I meet Muslims, I give them bread to eat. We plant trees, we please we dig wells silence. We give them water to drink.
And that is quite another character. Please Thank you. And
why I use these words were because my Jesus is insulted. And even if I give answer upon answer upon answer, and I've seen videotapes, I know books and Christian leaders, they have given their answer to Mr. De dot. And he continues to raise the same questions. And he puts his fingers in the ears, and he doesn't want to hear any answer. Then I remind myself from such situations I've heard from when people are tortured, imprisoned, and kept in continue to ask questions, and they doesn't want any answer, he just want to kill.
And I just want to say, you must have a very, very dirty imagination. If you look at the Bible as pornography. When the Bible speaks about God's wrath upon nations, I believe that my daughters would be more threatened and feel vomiting, reading in the Quran, that Muslim men can take the slave girl bakery prostitute, and No, well, he does it, that God will forgive him, God will forgive us till he repents.
Next question will go to Mr. deedat, and will like please be able to remind you that as chairman and chair, lady, we have been given the authority to give the word to one person at a time. And, again, I'm sorry that I have to remind you about the time limit, but we have to respect this that one person at a time speaks. Thank you.
And Lisa did that Yesterday, you said it was different between numbers. And Jesus said that me and the father we are one is the first I will say and today you said that you respect Jesus, you love Jesus. And you believe what he said. And I want Please, Mr. Stan, if you can read one word from the Bible, I think it's your hammer 16 in kanko metaphor that if Damiano may
talk to the Father except through me.
This is what Jesus said. Yes, I wanted you wanted to know what Jesus had said. And I will tell you that
Yes, question, please.
I will repeat what I understood
that with regards to the divinity of Christ, that Jesus is God.
I was asking the pastor to give me in an active vocal, an ambiguous statement by Jesus, that I am God worship Me, and thank God. He didn't succeed but not the least.
Very fairly, she's asking me a question. If I understood this correctly, that Jesus did say, I and My Father are One, that was the first statement was it was the lady says, I am a father of one.
Now it implies that if he is one with God, and He is God,
that is what it says, seen on the face of it, as, as you know, sister, or pastor, this quotation is in john, Chapter 10, verse 30 1030.
With Jesus is our and my father, when
he said that, I'm asking what is the context? And believe me, I've asked DVDs and priests and reverence and pastors from credit cards.
I'm asking, what is the context? meaning in what sense? Did he say that? And in the past 40 years, I haven't come across a single learned Christian, who without opening the book, can give me the context he has not been able to give yet.
What is the context? So if you see it in the context is not what you're thinking?
In the context, we must see versus not take them out from the context and say, Look, the man said this, in what sense? Did he say, What was he trying to explain? So in the context, as it started, john 23 1023, and you read there, it says, and Jesus walked in Solomon's porch, meaning in the temple of Jerusalem, then came the Jews around about him, meaning they surrounded him, and said,
brandishing a finger in his face. How long does that make us to doubt? his deep if tavita Christ tell us plainly
insinuating energy that is talking ambitiously, if that will be the Christ tell us plainly. So Jesus says, I told you, and you believe not the words that I do in my father's name, they have a witness of me, my sheep, hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish. My father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my father's hand.
Neither was that was verse 28, was 29, neither shall any men pluck them out of my hand. I and My Father are one.
This is the context. In other words, if once a person accepts faith God sees to be that the person remains in faith. And I, as a teacher, as a master is
a CT that the person remains in faith. We are one in this to see that the person remains in faith, not in his omnipotence, not in his omissions, not in his, what knowledge, nothing is talking about the oneness of purpose in seeing that the believer remains in faith, but the Jews were looking for trouble. And when you are looking for trouble, you find it around the corner, you don't have to go very far.
So the Jews was 31, the Jews picked up stones again to stone him.
So Jesus says, many good works have I showed you from my father, for which of those works Do you stone me? So they say, for a good work, we stone the knot, but for blasphemy, coffin, because that thou, being a man makers as a god, that is the charge, that you are now claiming divinity. For that you deserve depth, according to the law of the Jews. What does Jesus say to that? If he was God, he has an abundance of God, what else can I say? Just as a Muslim? As a look, I'm a Muslim. I have to say I'm a Muslim. I don't know what you can do with that. Now, what are you gonna do to me? But you say, Are you Muslim?
Is Jesus is God and he should say, if I am God, what else can I say? But he didn't say anything like that. He said, is it not written?
In your law? He's sarcastic. The law means the Torah, the first five books of Moses, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. Is it not written in your law? I said, he are God's, in others is quoting from the 82nd sound. The pastor has already made reference to it. From the 82nd Psalm. He said, I said, God is a quotation.
If he God Almighty, called them God's, unto me, the Word of God came in the prophets are called gods in our scripture. This is our language. This is how we talk, like in a court of law in in English court, they say, Milad Milad, who the magistrate the judge is a me Lord me, Lord, my Lord, my lord is your Lord is your God. No, this is your language. You talk like that. Milan, Milan means
My Lord, my Lord, you don't mean God. That's your language. In South Africa, the Word of God is here, hot in here. The Lord here is the here, I am God.
And you go to Cape Town, or any other place in the cities, and you find there, it says, the
science, when you go to the toilets is a Dharma era.
Dharma means days, ladies, and
means men, gentlemen, but at one stage, I didn't know that here a means. Gentlemen, I had learned it from the Bible, that here means God law. So I'm seeing Dharma, I guess it must be dangerous, ladies, but here
for God's in South Africa, for God's kindness of God, Gods don't go to pilots. But this is the language. So Jesus is telling look, in our language, people are called gods, and you find no fault with that. Why are you finding fault with me? When I say I'm the son of God, which is a lesser expression than calling a person, a god. Moses is called a god, that devil is called a God in the Bible.
And the Jews are called gods that ye are the children of God. And the children of the most IE are gods, and the children of the Most High 82nd son. So in other words, this is our language, we talk like that the godly person, we say he's a God. He doesn't mean God. He's a godly, godly, he said, God, this is our language. Why are you trying to find fault with me? No, there is no, no idea that ideas conveyed by Jesus when he said, I am a father of one, meaning he is God.
Then about that other words, Jesus has and the way the truth and the life Nomad comment on the Father, but by me, that was the second one.
is am the way, the truth and the life no man cometh unto the Father, but by basis I accept that. You see Jesus Christ. What you when you read that headings, john, Chapter 14, start from verse chapter 13. And you read there, and each and every expression, the Jews misunderstood everything that disciples misunderstood. Jesus is telling them that I am going to prepare a place for you. In my Father's house, there are many mentions, if it was not, so I would have told you, and we there I go, you know, you know where I'm going, and the way you know, they say, Lord, we know not whither thou goest and how can we know the way they misunderstood?
They misunderstood. Jesus is talking about God and our spiritual matters. And they think of geographical locations. What Stockholm, Oslo was
speaking about geographical places, he's talking about spiritual matters. So they said, We don't know. And how do we know the way misunderstood? So he said, Look, I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
It was too heavy for them. That was too heavy for them. So they say, again, Philip, but sin is the look, all this what you are talking is too heavy for us. We don't know what you're talking about. You're talking over our heads. Just show us the Father and His suffice that as show us God, that will give us satisfaction enough. So Jesus says, Philip, you have been with me for so long. Why ask us now shows the father, if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, and they misunderstood again. It's a continuous series of misconceptions. So Jesus is telling them he have little fake ye of little faith, how many times and he explains to them as I'm explaining to you now, like two
little children, and they can understand So he said, I even jet without understanding. And when he spoke further, he said, Oh, faithless and perverse generation telling his disciples of faithless and perverse generation, How long shall I be with you? How long shall I be with you? I'm saying that if he was a Japanese instead of a Jew, he would have committed the honorable harakiri suicide. Please.
Next question goes to Mr. Stanley shoberg. And now we will only allow two more questions.
So please be as short and precise as possible. Thank you for your attention.
Pastor.
I think you have been treated as a liar
by not good Muslims, and not good Christians.
It was wrong.
It was wrong. I said.
Yeah. What's about you and you treated shear as Hitler.
Yeah, not better, you should know it.
I will be, I will be very quick.
So I said, we're equal, and you should be better because you are a pastor.
My question is,
can I? Sure? Okay.
Many have, many Christians have met yours, they have met Jesus Christ.
So
I don't know if you have met him yourself before. So
my question is, as you said, Jesus is God, and God is Jesus, they are the same.
So when can we read in the last Bible, we suppose we will get the last Bible that people have met God? That was my question. Thank you, sir.
Silence, please, thank you, you see,
your question is, if I have met Jesus, and if I have experienced Him as God,
and that is true.
I have experienced that, as I've been praying, and I have experienced his presence.
And I must clarify, at the end of this conference,
that
when Jesus said that you are all gods, ironically, he said that to the to the crowd, and those who not only know the Greek language, in which the Bible was written here, and the word God was used, but those who know the history knows that the word God had become so misused. If you go to a dictionary, and read the history about this word Jesus is using here, as you quoted, even police officers called themselves Gods during that time. So when Jesus came, he had to tell the people in a, on a higher level, about his divinity, he could not because the word had become so misused, and there was such an inflation of the character of the word. So Jesus had to present himself and
explain his divinity, with other words, that the dot does not accept, and in deeds, and in character, and then he allowed the Holy Spirit to give confirmation and witness that Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit, direct let us
a part of the trinity of God gave witness and gave Glory to Jesus. And in the Bible, it says, that God has put all things under his feet.
Now, if God says, about his son, that I have put all things that belong to me as the creator of this world, I have been I have given under your feet, because we are one in a unique holiness, then the Bible clearly says that Jesus is God. And now there is only a final test that you can make. And that is,
does the Quran and Islam bring you close to the heart of God?
Does Islam create peace between people?
Why not try Jesus and ask Jesus to show you what he wants to do for you? You will understand he has the answer. He's got
our final question, ladies and gentlemen.
We'll go to
Mr. Othman did that and afterwards we will conclude this session.
He says did that leash Koshi Miss limited eg horny suedette must be standard punto de turabian. posterior.
Please Ciccone. Miss fleshless suerte sweatin. FEMA sorry Fie Cooper's blindness. You have to ask your question in English.
What are the most vet lash Fushigi? Connie lash? Sorry, miss.
Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, please keep the silence
respect that this is the last question. Thank you for your patience.
Sorry, Miss
if you want to ask your question in another language, if you could get somebody to translate you, thank you.
Sure.
Is that your question Miss?
Is that your question?
Silence please. Thank you, we will not allow the answer unless there is peace in this room.
Can we have somebody to come and present this question for this lady? Thank you.
Please, silence from all the best.
Excuse me, it's not the question according to the subject.
We will see you will see
this is we have to remind that this is not a political meeting. We will have to respect
the question of the lady but we cannot accept it as it is not belonging to the subject.
We will ask for next person who has a question to Mr. asmodee. That to come forward. Thank you.
Please remain silent. I asked you kindly. Please. Next question for Mr. deedat. And everybody please pay attention. We have a few minutes to go. I appeal to you, sisters and brothers to please keep calm for the next few minutes. Thank you.
Next question for Mr. deedat. Please.
Sorry, sir.
Sorry, sir. Thank you.
Please.
Sisters and brothers, please. We are mature people.
We are sitting here in the church hall. It is a hole of worship the house of God.
I appeal to you to please keep calm. And please reflect this calmness in your outward disposition. Next question, please for Mr. deedat.
I'm sorry, my English is not so good. But I hope you understand me. You said I'm sorry. You said that our regard. If he goes to toilet, he eats his sleep he does so and so and so. Okay. What about your guts? What What do you know? I don't know anything about God. Maybe he does that. And what about your God? Or not? Do you know how have you been in heaven before? then neither. And one other question please.
Silence yourself, please. Please, you're set.
You're set the question
those that for the Christian that goes.
Okay, what about God if he made mistake, it made me sick or not because that she had said that as a prophet must be for Ali and the center said the Prophet Mohammed and saw that nice mistake. Thank you.
Sister. Can you understand? If you understood I would have understood I don't know. I haven't understood it.
Please, it comes to translation. As far as I understand the question, she said,
Can God make a mistake?
Now the answer is God does not make mistakes.
Sisters and brothers, ladies and gentlemen,
both the speakers have presented their arguments to you.
The decision is therefore yours
to decide as to where lies the truth. You brothers and sisters be the church.
It is a matter between you and your Creator.
videotape of this meeting, and the one held last night will be available. There is a stall in the foyer outside on the stall is a box if you wish to acquire a tape on a cost to cost basis. Please leave your name and address and you will be contacted.
Thank you sisters and brothers Ladies and gentlemen, for coming here for your support and making this meeting a great success
as salaam alaikum May peace be with you
to make a
profit with avani Allah I
also want to thank everyone for coming here tonight.
I want to remind that the cafe on three floors is open for those who wish to discuss further.
Thank you very much for coming and for your interest.